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Origins of the Tagalog People, where are we with this?

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Prau123 avatar
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Where are we with the origin of the Tagalog people?  

My guess is the original Tagalogs were of North Bornean stock, and perhaps even related to the Visayans or even completely Visayan.  That begs the question, which Visayans are they more related to?  Eastern Visayans such as Cebuanos and Warays, or Western Visayans such as Aklanons and Karay-as?  Which also begs the question, how are Eastern and Western Visayans related to each other?  

Taal Lake appears to play a major role in early Tagalog history.  It's a big lake, with beautiful scenery.  Anyone who has a house or condo in Tagaytay can attest to that, or anyone who has simply visited the place. Smile But is this lore backed up by archaeology and the other anthro-sciences? 

When did the Tagalogs arrive in southern Luzon?  Are they a gradual development of the Eastern Visayan groups?  Are they a more recent arrival with the Western Visayans if we are to believe in the Legends of the 10 Datu story which claims that the Western Visayans arrived on the island of Panay on 1225 AD?  Or are the Tagalogs a completely separate migration from these two Visayan groups?  

How are the Tagalogs related to the Bicolanos?  Are Bicolanos a product of Eastern Visayan intrusion into the Bicol Region?  Or are they themselves a separate migration from any Visayan group and the Tagalogs?

Lastly, what route did the Tagalogs take to arrive to Southern Luzon, specifically was it through Palawan, or Panay, or Central and Eastern Visayas?  This question is of course related to the earlier questions. 

 
Posted : 23/09/2022 7:35 pm
ZeXsY(PMP23) reacted
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Have any of you ever wondered why the original Tagalogs could simply migrate to Southern Luzon when there was already an established population of Kapampangan (or Kapampangan related) people?  The Kapampangan kingdom apparently collapsed a long time ago.  At the time when the original Tagalogs arrived, perhaps the area (or nearby it) of present day Manila, Laguna De Bai, and Pampanga is where the Kapampangan stronghold was most concentrated.  But they were perhaps not organized enough or strong enough to fend off the incoming original Tagalogs who would land in the southern shores of Southern Luzon.  The original Tagalogs probably met some resistance as they arrived in the southern shores of Southern Luzon, but they prevailed, and eventually migrated northward to Mount Taal and its lake.   

Another question arises.  Is the Tagalog migration to Southern Luzon more of an organic migration or more of deliberate military takeover (conquest)?  If it was an organic migration, then the original Tagalog migrants were likely small, and they were likely merchants attracted to Southern Luzon or to the international trade found in the Manila area, Laguna De Bai, and Pampanga.  They would have been received peacefully by the local Kapampangan people, and allowed to eventually settle in their lands.  Overtime, more of these original Tagalogs came attracted for the same reason, and they gradually created a large community of Tagalog speakers, and they likely interbred with the local Kapampangan population.  This would have taken a long time, but it is possible.  But given how possibly different the Tagalog language is to the Kapampangan language lexically speaking, would you favor a more faster migration narrative?  I really don't know the answer to this question.  Perhaps I'm even wrong to assume that the Tagalog language has very few loanwords from Kapampangan, especially the Tagalog dialects in the very south of Luzon where the original Tagalogs likely originally landed.  But if it is true that Tagalog (especially the Tagalog dialect in southern Luzon where the original Tagalogs originally landed) has very few Kapampangan loanwords, would the migration narrative of the original Tagalogs favor a more deliberate and aggressive one such as a military conquest?  That several original Tagalogs on several ships arrived in a short period of time to the southern shores of Southern Luzon.  The original Tagalogs probably knew that they were not strong enough to just go straight to the Manila area, Laguna De Bai, or Pampanga without suffering a lot of casualties.  So they took a more long term approach, and settled in the southern shores of Soutern Luzon.  They were nearby enough to capture some of the international trade from Manila, Laguna De Bai, and Pampanga area, and they especially controlled the international trade from there on to the Visayas and Mindanao.  I'm speculating here, and hopefully I haven't gone too far off on a limb.       

 
Posted : 24/09/2022 6:45 pm
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The problem with the organic model (slow & peaceful model) of migration of the Tagalogs onto the southern shores of Southern Tagalog is that the migration would likely have to have originated from somewhere nearby.  It requires a relatively short distance of travel, and constant flow of migrants (merchants) over a long period of time for this type of migratory phenomenon to occur, in my opinion.   

If Tagalogs are a product of the Eastern Visayans or Bicolanos (who in turn are likely the product of Eastern Visayans) that's a possibility.  The Eastern Visayans have been in the Philippines for probably 2,000 years.    

If the Tagalogs are a product of Western Visayans, it's also a possibility but very unlikely, because of two reasons:  (1) The Western Visayans appear to have arrived relatively late in the 1200s or as early as the 1000s, and for some reason I always think the Tagalogs had arrived earlier (but I could be wrong on this); (2) Given how late the Western Visayans arrived, would a (slow) organic model have enough time to allow the Tagalogs to peacefully establish themselves in large numbers in the southern shores of Southern Luzon?  

If the Tagalogs do not originate among the Eastern or Western Visayans, and instead originate somewhere else and likely very far away, then it's unlikely that an organic migration model is feasible in my opinion. 

An organic model is possible for the Tagalog migration narrative, but I favor a more deliberate and aggressive migration model of the Tagalogs onto the southern shores of Southern Luzon.  That's my intuition.  

 
Posted : 25/09/2022 4:44 am
Elgin Productions
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image

https://www.amazians.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/119/82-Capturenanolive.JPG

 
Posted : 28/09/2022 4:00 am
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@elgin Wonderful map, thank you. 👍

 
Posted : 12/03/2023 10:43 am
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