I don't really talk about politics but we are living in interesting times. what exactly is China going to do if the US/EU & other US allies decided to decouple from China?
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Jan 27, 2021 3:49 am
90 Replies
Jan 28, 2021 12:28 am
@marneil
Nothing, we are going to have a parallel world between East vs West just the like the USA vs USSR cold war days.
Jan 28, 2021 2:28 am
@rambo
I don't think so, more likely a hot war in the near future. Especially with the coronavirus finger-pointing.
https://www.dw.com/en/us-concerned-after-chinese-warplanes-fly-over-taiwan-airspace/a-56327535
Jan 27, 2021 6:20 am
Angela Merkel followed this speech, she specifically said she agreed with Xi's view of the need of multilateralism. Her successor is her political apprentice so there will be stability for quite some time.
China is going dual circulation anyway. It doesn't need to do much different. The hawks are always people whose business is to create comments. If you're a real business owner, I would encourage you to try to decouple, do it, now! 😂
Jan 27, 2021 5:19 pm
I don't get it. China is with the U.N. But seems like China and U.S are at a bitter relationship. Knowing that North Korea and China are strongly agreeable with one another, one false move between the relation with North Korea and the U.S, which will create provocation that China have to intervene if war ever starts. Than I am guessing China will fall out of the U.N. and the whole Communist/Soviet Union Alliance will start their plan to try and take over the world.
Jan 27, 2021 6:36 pm
Jan 27, 2021 7:22 pm
Why would they do that?
Jan 27, 2021 8:45 pm
they always break international laws on trade, iran, palestine, sanctions, drone strikes, bombings, assassinations, computer sabotage etc.
Jan 27, 2021 9:02 pm
Jan 27, 2021 9:13 pm
Jan 27, 2021 9:51 pm
Jan 28, 2021 8:34 am
In the security council, on syria, iraq etc US UK France are on the same side. But on Jerusalem it voted 14 to 1 against the US.
In the General Assembly, if there's opposition to the majority, it's almost always led by the US.
Jan 28, 2021 10:07 pm
When you said "But on Jerusalem it voted 14 to 1 against the US."
What you mean by Jerusalem?
Jan 29, 2021 7:36 am
The UN has long held Jerusalem is an international city. Israel says it owns all of it. Trump moved US embassy to Jerusalem in effect siding with Israel. The security council tried to restate its position on Jerusalem US vetoed it 1 vs 14.
Jan 29, 2021 7:17 pm
@wei-nihao If the majority voted against Isreal and the U.S, than why are they still doing what they are doing?
Jan 30, 2021 8:22 am
they think they're better than other nations. As Americans say, we see farther and wider than other nations. Their foreign policy is the "concentric ring" theory, anglo countries in the middle, then rings of allies to neutral to adversaries to enemies.
Jan 30, 2021 5:46 pm
@wei-nihao So its like the Anglo-Americans joined force with the Jewish, to take over the world?
Jan 30, 2021 8:54 pm
In my opinion, they align with Israel to avoid being accused of fascism, kind of like Proud Boys having a black leader from Cuba. Israel is like a priest for the west, they have a spiritual cover for imperialism.
Jan 30, 2021 9:38 pm
@wei-nihao Funny, most Anglo-White Americans despised the Jewish people. I guess in the government is different.
Jan 30, 2021 9:48 pm
the right wing don't want Jewish influence in their own country, but they're happy to support Israel internationally. they say it's for religious reasons but I believe the reality is it covers for their imperialism (mostly center-right people).
the left is happy with Jews, Jews are always a liberal influence and big leaders in that area.
far-left is anti-Israel internationally, because they just hate imperialism and sympathize with developing countries.
Jan 30, 2021 9:55 pm
@wei-nihao Why would the Jews be considered to be a liberal? Are you saying the Jews from all over? Or the ones that are in Isreal?
Jan 30, 2021 10:04 pm
Jews outside Israel always promoted liberalism, the right wing just says this is so they can parasite from the host country. Well it just makes sense if you're going to be minority in a foreign country you want liberal minded atmosphere. Jews are also high IQ which correlates with liberalism just naturally.
Israel may be less liberal itself, they are founded by Zionists who wanted to reclaim their biblical lands, so it naturally attracts the right wing part of Jews.
Jan 30, 2021 10:23 pm
Jan 30, 2021 11:09 pm
the Zionists want to erase Palestine because it's their promised land in the bible.
Jan 30, 2021 11:13 pm
Jan 31, 2021 7:10 am
It was the Jewish kingdom Judea 2000 years ago, Romans drove them out, Arabs took over during 7th century I believe, from 14th century Turks ruled the Arabs there, until 20th century.
The modern issue is that the UN agreed to creating Israel, but with much smaller borders than they control today. They claim the lands they conquered during the middle east wars because they say Arabs attacked them. But UN is talking about going back to 1967 borders, which was changed by Israel which started that war.
The UN has such a big problem with Israel because after world war 2, no other country has claimed the right to conquer new territory.
Jan 31, 2021 7:13 am
@wei-nihao So I know its a back and forth thing. Don't know who started attacking each other, but both sides has been taking alot of casualties.
This reminds me of the Native Americans being slaugthered from the Pilgrims. But the Jewish people thought of it as, taking back their land because of history.
Why did the UN never took any type of action to put justice to the Jews?
Jan 31, 2021 7:18 am
Israelis feel they deserve it because "gentiles" always persecuted them and they were invaded in 1948 on the heels of the holocaust. But they don't just annex territory, they don't give Palestinians citizenship, rule them as conquered people for half of a century.
The security council has multiple resolutions that require Israel to return to 1967 borders, and create a Palestinian state. Israel just ignores them, they believe they will win in the long run. I guess they will eventually create Palestinian state with much smaller area without Jerusalem, if Arab countries can never unite again.
Jan 31, 2021 7:21 am
@wei-nihao This is a case of major discrimination. Which, the Jews been discriminated, so they have learned and assimilate the hate from the Nazis and perpetuated war on to the Palestinians.
Is that the best thing the Security Council can do? It feels as though the UN are just saying one thing and turning their heads for the Jews to do what they want to do. Now what is the "supposed" policy that the council are trying to place on Israel.
I wonder how would this works out when they are neighbors.
Jan 31, 2021 7:50 am
People should just focus on economy and not play zero-sum games. Yes in a local situation the powerful can win in the short term, but it stirs future conflict by corroding the peaceful liberal environment. Jews have returned to Germany and they have started fighting with the right-wing party there.
Jan 31, 2021 8:04 am
@wei-nihao If we all did not play the zero-sum game. Than every country would be stagnant. Wouldn't it be?
If we were all liberal communist, and everyone is equal, than nobody will benefit or profit. Since there is no gain, and no loss. But knowing that people with power, will do best to secure their comfort, they would have to protect their power, even if they have to take their own peoples supposed "rights" away.
Jan 31, 2021 10:34 am
Economy is positive sum, the entire developing world is rising, I think this story is being missed in the west.
Relative power can be zero-sum, the US/Europe are worried about their relative power here. The point of liberalism is to devalue the importance of relative power, not to stifle competition. Over valuing relative power, trying to defend and stagnate each country's entrenched position, is kind of like slavery. During colonialism, they couldn't keep this up despite much larger advantages that they had. Today it's even more impossible.
As for Israel, normally the UN would be able to implement economic sanctions, like they had on South Africa and the sanctions against nuclear weapons. But Israel essentially owns the American veto so it's impossible to sanction them. The general assembly is not subject to veto they just condemn Israel every year, but no enforcement other than applying social pressure.
Jan 31, 2021 10:49 am
@wei-nihao Wow.. That really shows how much power that the United States have overall.
Jan 31, 2021 11:14 am
the UN is just a forum they need support of sovereign countries to do anything
Jan 31, 2021 11:32 am
@wei-nihao So UN is just grouping politicians from all over the world just to talk?
Jan 31, 2021 11:51 am
they have to keep talking, if no one is talking international law dies. the principles are in the UN charter, the countries agreed to them because they don't want to repeat ww2.
Jan 31, 2021 12:04 pm
@wei-nihao Oh I see. I am guessing that everyone in the U.N. questioning if North Korea is willing to diplomatically talk over for peace. Since North Korea does not want to join in with the U.N.
It is crazy when you see that Saddam Hussein gave out a long speech in 2003, and three years later he got executed. Than you will see that Muammar Gaddafi made a huge speech in 2009, and 2 years later he got assassinated.
Jan 31, 2021 12:42 pm
the security council went along with sanctions on north korea, because literally no one else was actively testing nuclear weapons. if china vetoed the sanctions it would have a hard time keeping india/pakistan not testing. now north korea has stopped testing but lifting sanctions would be vetoed by the US. The UN has become more dysfunctional since China and US cannot get along anymore.
Saddam and Gaddafi were both overthrown and killed illegally. This is why multilateralism is supported even by EU, no one wants another world war before international law is respected again.
Jan 31, 2021 5:37 pm
@wei-nihao Wow, so funny. America would like to bully North Korea, but wouldn't say anything to China. Which makes America the true cowards.
What country would be the most important cause to create another world war, if it ever happens?
Feb 02, 2021 6:34 am
it would be caused by the US. everyone else is content with the current international system and try to compete inside of it. the US wants to make sure only it can win in the system so they look for ways to upset the current rules.
Nonproliferation is supposed to be accompanied by denuclearization of all nuclear powers. But the US suppresses the denuclearization part completely. Trump was on the way to abandon the current nuclear control treaties, before Biden turned the course somewhat.
Feb 02, 2021 6:40 am
@wei-nihao Do you mean, denuclearization to all the Nations who are carrying nukes?
Feb 02, 2021 6:53 am
yes the five recognized nuclear powers have treaty obligation to work toward eliminating their own nuclear weapons. Gorbachev suggested they should do this, he was simply ignored. there's a treaty recently banning all nuclear weapons signed by a lot of countries, but none of the nuclear powers signed it.
Feb 02, 2021 7:02 am
Feb 02, 2021 7:08 am
the banning treaty was signed just a few days ago. NPT started in latest 60's and got people signing until the 90's. India, Israel, Pakistan never signed NPT. North Korea was on it at first but withdrew after US broke from the Clinton deal under Bush.
Feb 02, 2021 7:14 am
@wei-nihao Of course, North Korea have trust issues.
Will you explain more about Clinton deal under Bush?
Feb 02, 2021 7:52 am
as I recall, it started by US congress denying funds to build North Korea light water reactors, and not fully supplying the crude oil that was promised in exchange for dismantling its nuclear and missile programs. (North Korea just wanted to catch up economically it has no future competing militarily with much larger countries)
The real break came when Bush lobbed NK together with Iraq and Iran as "Axis of Evil", and wanted them to dismantle even more stuff than was in the agreement, while not caring about US obligations. At that time China was high on WTO and used 9/11 to get close to Bush. So North Korea felt really threatened and they blew up their first bomb.
Feb 03, 2021 11:27 pm
@wei-nihao Does Iran have nuclear weapons? When you said North Korea blew up their first bomb, meaning they tested their first nuke?
Feb 04, 2021 12:24 am
Iran doesn't have it. they could build it if they want to , but they would rather have the ability not have the weapon.
The US tries to portray that everyone covets the bomb and they must be kept down. most countries either don't want it or don't want to use it in anyway--they're just very bad sport compared to traditional military development. US and Russia are really the only two that see nuclear weapons as policy tools.
Feb 04, 2021 5:25 am
@wei-nihao Didn't Gorbachev wanted to disband nuclear capabilities? So would alot of Russian politicians feel the same way, or are they indifferent in Gorbachevs suggestion?
Also why is Iran and US not in good terms? Even though they have not got into conflict, until a General from Iran got assasinated by Donald Trumps order. What is the reason these two countries are not at each other throats?
Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am
Gorbachev promoted "new thinking" as a way to ease tensions and end the cold war. After it became *losing* the cold war for Russia, they put even more value on their nuclear weapons.
The US turned against Iran after their islamic revolution that put a theological leadership in power. The US accused Iran was not being a country but "being an idea", promoting their values and beliefs in the middle east and openly resisting US leadership. Iran is a big player like Turkey, but unlike Turkey it doesn't join NATO or help the west against Russia. When Turkey got too close to Russia they also got sanctioned by the US.
Feb 04, 2021 11:02 am
Feb 04, 2021 11:26 am
Turkey decided to buy Russian S400 air defence missiles, instead of buying American Patriot or European system. They originally decided to buy Chinese HQ9 but they pulled out when China wouldn't allow technology transfer. There were several reasons for turning from the west. Turkey wasn't being allowed into the EU, and the US seemed to actually want to topple Erdogan and they were involved in a coup against him. Turkey wants to build unity with turkic countries like Azerbaijian , suppress their Kurds, rein in Israel, be a hub in China's Belt and Road project. They just have a lot of their own ideas that stepped on too many US toes. The US sanctioned their defense industry which is way more damage to them even than the sanctions on Chinese companies.
Feb 04, 2021 11:30 am
@wei-nihao Okay thanks again for the info wei-nihao. It is 5:30 am and I am try to go back to sleep again. I will chat with you when I get back on.
Feb 04, 2021 11:37 am
okay, goodnight to you. I'm not always following the latest developments, so if you have updates I'm interested in hearing about them, too.
Jan 31, 2021 11:09 am
@wei-nihao Will you explain the positive sum economy that is happening in parts of the world? If you can, give some examples.
Jan 31, 2021 11:47 am
the entire world has been growing 3-4% per year, Africa, SEA have grown a lot. the reason is mobility of information, mobility of companies, and sustained training following examples of others. more people doing useful things=positive for economy.
Jan 31, 2021 12:09 pm
@wei-nihao Is food and resource the only neccesity to have for to build a developed economy?
Jan 31, 2021 1:03 pm
for developing countries, the bottleneck is application of existing knowledge. for example, in Pakistan, they found huge amount of coal, 175 billion tons, but the country lacks electricity and has low food production.
these are immediate questions around poverty. in the long term there's carbon foot print and population growth issues. fortunately, it seems modern life is the best birth control, so everyone agrees on development, as long as we can work towards carbon neutrality by doing solar, wind, hydro, nuclear and implementing low impact life styles.
Jan 31, 2021 5:01 pm
@wei-nihao Do you believe that for some reason, underdeveloped countries are being deprived from true education?
Feb 02, 2021 6:50 am
I think they're deprived of progress if they're forced to meet western interference and the desire to control their societies. In Coppenhagen 2009, the climate treaty promoted by the west was going to lock in developing countries at much lower per capita emissions, permanently. the developing countries simply revolted, and they reworked it in 2014 to allow other countries to industrialize.
Developing countries can also run into problems by unwittingly following the west's concerns and desires. they only let countries succeed if it's fighting one of their enemies. what if there are no enemies or you don't want to fight? then you're shut-out or actively suppressed.
Feb 02, 2021 7:01 am
@wei-nihao Give some examples of the countries that has revolted.
Also, the countries that unwittingly following the west.
What did the west do, to have the developing countries to unwittingly follow the west agenda.
Feb 02, 2021 7:17 am
the earliest follower of the west was China, it modeled the 1912 republic after the US.
Chaotic countries like Pakistan, Rwanda etc need single party leadership and state guided media. Singapore had to justify itself to the west in 80's, they kind of played between China, SEA and the west to gain acceptance. Independent minded countries like Turkey and Iran do much better than Egypt, Libya, etc.
the west always has a lot of tools, Christianity, mercantilism, imperialism, free trade/fair trade, free media/political media, open universities/technology blockade, which ever they feel they need at the moment. these can confuse people into just following whatever they're talking about.
Feb 02, 2021 7:23 am
@wei-nihao Okay, umm which of those countries revolted?
When you said Singapore had to justify, what do you mean by that?
So tell me why is Turkey and Iran doing much better than Egypt?
Feb 02, 2021 7:38 am
@charlie all of the revolted, as one block, they trashed the Copenhagen conference.
During the cold war, Singapore was anti-communist. After cold war ended, it was being criticized constantly for its media control, and why one party kept winning elections. The risk to Singapore was it would no longer be able to function as a trading hub, if western countries shunned it. I think what Singapore did was, always buy western weapons, train their military in the west, build up ASEAN, while convincing the west it would be able to influence China.
Turkey and Iran are both one party states, with organized education systems that serve the country's strategies. Iraq beat Iran in their war during the 80's, today their relative strength is like night and day.
Feb 02, 2021 7:55 am
@wei-nihao Interesting. From what I am getting at, seems like Singapore has been described to be a dictatorship government. Would that mean that one family are controlling Singapore just like North Korea? Or is just the people that are affiliated with the PAP?
Please tell me more about the war with Iraq and Iran?
Feb 02, 2021 8:20 am
as I understand it, Singapore is run a lot like a corporation. You look at a corporation, it can have both family and outsiders, it's both command-based and keeps open ears, it wants to be stable and successful and to make money.
I don't know too much about Iran-Iraq war. I think it started with drilling rights near the border, maybe sectarian issues too. Iraq had better weapons, better trained army, used poison gas. Iran lost a lot of soldiers, Saddam gained so much confidence he invaded Kuwait to pay for the war.
Feb 02, 2021 8:33 am
@wei-nihao Oh very interesting. Nice talking to you for a bit this morning. I am heading to sleep, talk to you when I get back online. Peace.
Feb 02, 2021 8:40 am
OK Charlie, it looks like we're both interested in learning about these things.
Feb 02, 2021 7:48 pm
@wei-nihao Yes, trying to learn variety of topics to be aware of what is going on.
Feb 03, 2021 1:49 am
Feb 03, 2021 10:39 pm
it was a plan by neo-cons to remake the middle east,i.e. conservatives who were interested in "spreading democracy", and in fact to create a christian friendly environment. traditionally, democrats were interested in "human rights", conservatives only wanted to "stop communists and terrorists". neo-cons were were conservatives who saw an opportunity, at the peak of American power, to spread christian democracy.
Feb 03, 2021 10:43 pm
@wei-nihao Lol... bringing Christianity to your country by blowing your people up. Okay. That makes sense.
Also, who are the neo-cons?
Feb 03, 2021 10:47 pm
Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Wolfewitz, these people were disgraced by Iraq so you don't hear about them anymore.
Feb 03, 2021 11:12 pm
Feb 04, 2021 12:12 am
they toppled Saddam but they didn't achieve what they wanted. Iraq is so messed up today.
The neo-cons spent several trillion dollars on Iraq, 50,000 wounded/disabled, saw the financial crisis on their watch, left behind US workers, etc. they've pretty much exited the stage.
Feb 04, 2021 5:22 am
Feb 04, 2021 10:44 am
they spent way more money on Iraq. the only benefits they got was better access to their government, and selling them weapons. if they openly robbed the country Iraq would be even more ungovernable and it would destroy their influence in the middle east.
Feb 04, 2021 10:59 am
Feb 04, 2021 11:12 am
they had to make sure the Iraqi government they created could somewhat govern Iraq (although not really as we saw with ISIS). to get their troops out of Iraq and leave it reasonably peaceful, the US actually paid the groups that attacked them. it was much cheaper than trying to kill them, which hundreds of thousands of Iraqis had already died as a result of the US, and creating endless enemies. so, under Obama they paid off the resistance fighters.
Feb 04, 2021 11:20 am
Feb 04, 2021 11:51 am
I think it was a variety of different groups such as Saddam's officers that lost their jobs. Trump says Obama created ISIS, I'm sure he would say anything about Obama, but I also wouldn't be surprised if there were payments with Saudi Arabia that went into ISIS.
Feb 04, 2021 8:56 pm
@wei-nihao Wow, Americans who created a terrorist group that throws out Anti-American propagranda?
Feb 06, 2021 1:33 pm
they paid the people that created Al Qaeda, too, to fight the Soviets.
Jan 31, 2021 12:13 pm
Jan 31, 2021 12:35 pm
Jan 31, 2021 8:13 am
@wei-nihao I believe in peace also, but I think peace will be established in the long future. So just make your own peace in your own way in the setting you are in.
Jan 30, 2021 5:39 pm
I don't like Donald Trump but yeah we should decouple from China & bring the jobs back home.
Feb 02, 2021 10:36 pm
@jose If we take China's job, wouldn't that raise the prices to the products that we created?
Feb 06, 2021 5:51 pm
No, there is Mexico & other Latin American countries that can match China's labor market. At least, the money circulates back to the US when dealing with Latin American.
Feb 07, 2021 11:35 pm
@jose Do Mexico and Latin America has the ability to manufacture computer parts, and any other technological parts?
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