@MaharlikaTimawa

[QUOTE=Selurong;414427]You are woefully misinformed. The Christian Filipno migration to Mindanao that conquered the Moros there did not happen during the Spanish or American times, it happened during the independence era with the [url= https://www.reddit.com/r/ColdWarPowers/comments/509far/eventphilippines_establishes_the_mindanao/ ]Homestead Act of 1954[/url].

During this time, when Mindanao was subjugated BY THE FILIPINOS, the Spanish and the Americans were already way gone.

Again, Spanish accounts conflict what you are saying...

They considered Visayans as better warriors than Mindanaoans.

[i]When the Spaniards came to the Visayas, they noted that the pirates among them[U] were more terrifying than the Mohammedans of Jolo and Mindanao. [/U]All year long, after the harvest, they would sail toward faraway places to hunt slaves and make surprise attacks on settlements. Those who did not live along the rivers, would make their raids in the months of February, March, April, October and November, going deeper into the interior parts of the islands, sacking the villages. These raiding expeditions are called panggubat (noun) or manggubat (gerund verb form).[/i]

[b]Source:[/b] [url= https://archive.org/details/lasislasvisayase00reye ] Isabelo de los Reyes y Florentino, Las Islas Visayas en la Época de la Conquista (Segunda edición), Manila: 1889, Tipo-Litografía de Chofké y C.a, p. 36.[/url]

That's patently false. Places like Cebu were international trade centers with people from Japan to Sumatra congregating there before the Spanish came and they even spoke Malay too. You should also remember that the Visayas is at the center of the Philippines, so naturally it becomes the hub for the whole Philippines. The Visayas is not some isolated backwater, as your ignorant words say.

Also it's quite insulting to me, considering that I'm Visayan myself and you considering us savages smacks of racism and ethnocentrism.

The people of prehispanic Manila also then practiced the religion of their conquerors too. Sultan Bolkiah of Brunei forcefully converted them to Islam and made them abandon their indigenous Anito religion but because of your sheer hypocrisy and double standards, that's not shameful, but converting to Christianity is...

The Visayans were far more advanced than what you portray. Let's take a look at the pictures the Spanish painted about us in the Boxer Codex.

These are what Bisayans looked like then...

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Oh look, they were wielding steel swords and wearing gold jewelry all around themselves. Far from the savage you badmouth and bullshit about.

In fact, the ones who were wearing the Bahag the most are you people from Luzon most especially those from the Northern portions of Luzon.

Look at these Bahag wearing natives from Zambales and Cagayan!

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

You should look at yourself in the mirror and realize that the real Bahag wearers are you people from Luzon, hahaha.

"
The 28 inch "dha" you posted is just a Burmese made dha. Filipinos in the Visayans and some in southern Luzon had to import weapons outside their own capabilities when they wanted something sharper, harder and better than the soft iron weapons they used.

"...Scott, suggests that, while Visayans and Luzon populations did their own iron-smithing to manufacture knives and swords, superior iron weapons and virtually all of the bronze weapons were imported in the sixteenth century from Mindanao, Sulu, Makassar, Borneo, China, Or japan." - Raiding Trading and Feasting by Laura Lee Junker

K, So that this whole forum can see how retarded you are, you're telling me that Moros just casually and systemically exported in mass, weapons to Visayans whom they were constantly raiding and many times at war with just like that? And that steel or iron was scarce in the Visayas BUT NOT Mindanao? To the point that Moros afforded to build a f*cking bladesmithing industry like you're saying they do? Did the Moros even mine their own metal? Either you're stupid or the Moros are stupid. Pick one. I'm not denying there were imports at all, but you literally seem to blow your YOUR OWN SOURCES out of proportion in so many ways I can address.

I don't need to entertain your stupidity, f*ck your sources. LMAO,. Your sources in this case may be nothing more than speculation and suggestions, some can be challenged. To whoever said Visayan blades just dysfunctionally broke after a few uses. I've literally seen in person, literally aged or antique Visayan bolos that can chop wood equal to an axe. There are literally many respectable FMAs and Filipino blade enthusiasts who attest to this and those who held into actual heavy traditional Visayan blades included. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Handmade, traditional-based and locally made Visayan Bolo being used to cut way half into a Tree.

Ouch.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
"Two colonial powers that were not at UK's level at the time, logistically far away from home.."
You're a moron if you think that the UK had anything on Spain who was the greatest maritime super power during the time the Moros were giving them a run for their money and the Visayans were utterly conquered by them.
Except I don't think the UK was more powerful than Spain during those earlier times. I'm speaking of Spain shortly before the Americans arrived. Because you as if spoke earlier of the Spanish and Americans teaming up against Moros. So you made it seem as if you were speaking of late 18th century Spain, now you seem to be flip-flopping back the timeline?

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
No country has EVER dominated the entirety of the Philippine islands. None. Not even today. The Islamic south is still at war with any "invader" and has been for 500 years. You really don't know anything about this subject. You're just another ignorant monkey spouting off nonsense.
What, you mean the Moro Gypsies who work at ukay ukays, selling made in china shit, repairing cellphones and selling knock off pirated CDs like the rest of humbly hard working Filipinos? Is this the legacy of the Moro warrior you speak of that makes them so exalted above the rest? So f*cking superior to Filipinos by default on mutlitudes? Lol.

Moros contribute nothing of seriously groundbreaking, intellectual, exponential value to the country's economy, technology or education that would make them collectively and systemically a "back bone". My friend's father grew up in Basilan and the Muslims there did not take liking to being called "Moro" as it had negative connotations of a thief. So stop making them out to be the "back bone" of the Philippines.

If there is any peopling backbone in the Philippines (at least one of), it would be the Chinese Filipinos who own a lot of the banks and corporations and economy here, and are funnily waaay more of a backbone to the country compared to anything any Moro could think or dream of even if it seems not, if at all, save for the Moro who might have sold Bananas in Guadalupe Nuevo. Winning battles and resisting here and there doesn't make you a back bone kiddo and it has ZERO to do with being civilized, whatever your weirdo definition of civilized is. Most Chinese Filipinos I personally know hold being "Chinese" as more of an ethnic identity than it is national loyalty.

No one dominates the Philippine Islands because no one has, and never will, neither has anyone or anything "dominated" a zilch of the rest of the globe before, now or ever. We're all just a bunch of highly evolved apes who decide they "own" land they land on, where they are present that's been around for millions of years before humans even existed, on a rock floating in space that is set to be engulfed by the sun eons from now.

LOL mate, you claim I'm an ignorant monkey, yet you found the site that which from where I found the Filipino DHA whose owner posted his other antique collections that literally refutes you. I'll be vague about it as possible about this till you figure that out yourself since you're so smart. And yet, you probably can't even figure how to address one of the arguments of mine that's actually, can you? You ain't that smart.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
The Filipino and Burmese DHA are totally different in design generally."
Thats like saying Catholics and christians are different. The 28 inch "dha" you posted is just a Burmese made dha. Filipinos in the Visayans and some in southern Luzon had to import weapons outside their own capabilities when they wanted something sharper, harder and better than the soft iron weapons they used.
LOLOL!!!!! Have you even touched a traditional aged Visayan blade before? That shit is not soft iron you stupid f*cking idiot!!! Soft pure iron can be sliced with a mere f*cking knife, that's not the characteristics you get when you analyze these heavy thick blades such as Visayan Ginuntings and Tinegres that HAD and CAN SLICE OFF Japanese limbs by surprise before and constantly be seen chopping wood like nothing! That shit is not soft-iron sonny, doesn't matter how many times you say it is... IT'S NOT F*CKING SOFT IRON YOU STUPID F*CKING MORON. nor would soft iron even be considered EVER a tool as a casual farming implement if at all, NOR WOULD SO MANY VISAYAN BOLOS EVER BE HISTORICALLY USED TO REPEATEDLY AND CASUALLY CUT SUGAR CANE. it would just chip off and break off, no one in their right mind would use SOFT IRON FOR ANYTHING.

As for your suggestion that the likely Filipino Dha is just an Imported Burmese Made DHA, once again displaying your stupidity, it stays as that. Zero evidence, Zero proof. No matter how much you say it is a Burmese DHA, it doesn't make it true, I'm sorry kiddo. LOL, unless you do a deep investigation into Mindoro where there exists tribes there that still write in Baybayin even after all these years (post 16th century) within at least the contemporary time frame the blade was forged, and luckily find the f*cking receipt to the transaction of the so called import you claim. However, The CRITICAL HOLE IN YOUR CLAIM, is that this antique Filipino DHA blade is MUCH YOUNGER and MADE MORE THAN A FEW CENTURIES AFTER THE 16th CENTURY the specific period that which even your OWN SOURCE, Scott and Laura specifically described to which PERIOD when Visayan foreign weapons import activities happened that is the 16th CENTURY while this Filipino DHA was made LONG AFTER. So there is ZERO possible link between this blade and those so called "import" weapons activities. Minding the complexity of the construct and concept of ANACHRONISM get it? Thicko? Retard? Arseswipe? That which your pee little brain can neither grasp, nor contain the contents. wait... Do you even know where Mindoro is on a map without googling? LOL!!!! You probably don't know whether Mindoro is a mainland city or an Island do you? Good luck with your investigation little boy!!! Oh, and Catholics and non-Catholic Christians are not the same. In case you didn't know.

Next you'll say that heavy Bikolano sabers like Minsabads are also imported Burmese Dhas LOL!!!!! Or probably something from the Moros again despite the blade being symmetrically shaped different from anything those Moros made before even though there are still isolated Bikol pandays who still forge these blades traditionally this day AHAHAHAHA!!! You'll probably spout more brain dead arguments however like ""BUT BUT BUT DATS LIKE ZAYING CATULIKS ND CHRISTIANS ARE NUT D SAME SO THERFUR MINASBAD ITZ MORO MADE"" Ahahahaha! LOL Totally sound arguments!!! LOL!! LOL!!

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
The Viets and Zulus? LOL The Filipinos may be small but the Scouts were and are tougher than the communist candy ***** ass could ever dream of being.
Maybe if Filipinos were the ones running the Israel army, the whole palestine conflict would of ended years ago.....
You're comparing nations of large populations to a small population that resulted in the same way.
Oh, so you went from dissing Filipinos and gobbling Moro nuts like a queer to praising Filipino scouts? Isn't it funny the moment I started comparing Moros to other peoples and warriors outside the Philippines, you start now shifting your language from "Moro" to "Filipino" being pro-Filipino and now call upon Filipino scouts as some marvel to be proud of to compare like a Pactard? How does that work? Among Filipinos you're pro-Moro but when foreigners are taken into account you become pro-Filipino? Your pathological comment flip-flops back and forth. Are you by any chance suffering from some form of mental disorder or something? What is your agenda here anyway?

And Lol, I'll leave the discussion of your military to the Filipinos and other Asians on the defence.pk forum and the Taiwanese and Chinese trolls who diss on the Filipino military frequently there, since that is not my realm. But everyone puts their country on the pedestal kiddo. So talk all that shit about the Viets as you wish. They killed way more Americans than any Moro did and caused them an everlasting scar on American memory and culture that lasts to this day, they got bragging rights, Moros don't. I've even encountered a few Filipinos online who try to associate themselves with Vietnam's war accomplishments on some forums by making the claim OH WE FILIPINOS AND VIETNAMESE ARE D SAME WE LLUK ALYKE WE D SAME RAYCE. The main image of Moros these days are these poor victimized Muslim minority, not the warrior image you are promoting. Filipinos constantly appropriate Moro culture daily and they can't do anything about it, save for their half wit white-knight that is you whining on the internet about it. Lolers

If Filipinos lead the Israeli army, nothing would change, do Filipinos even have extensive knowledge of desert warfare.Unless you Filipinos decide to seriously genocide all or most Palestinians, which is possible, but beyond insanity and beyond any of you. If you think solving the Palestinian conflict is best solved with military, then you're way off.

I don't give a rats ass if you're crying and b*tching to me about comparing Filipinos and Moros to larger populations. We're not talking about populations or comparison parity, I just wanted to give you a flash reality check that Moros are nothing special or extraordinary that which your narratives' atmosphere implies. I am sick and tired of people all over the world constantly inflating their peoples' prowess (even we Jews are guilty of this) usually goes along the lines of "HOLY SHIT THIS ETHNIC 3RD WORLD MINORITY GAVE THE BRITISH A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY, THEY MADE THE BRITISH SOLDIER SNEEZE HOLY SHIT THEY ARE SO BADASS, EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST IN THE END" The ridiculous tiny low standards for putting conquered non-European warriors on pedestals and the fuzzy inflated definition of "run for their money" is outstanding, espousing such things like this is getting old already. Trust me son, you're not the first guy who comes to me saying the same thing, the only difference is that you might interchange Moro with another people under a similar circumstance or whatever and you'll get the same result. Same old game.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
Now run along and go tell your mommy the man on the Internet made you cry. Perhaps she'll give you a cookie before putting you down for your nap. LOL
Wow, nice wordplay, bravo, unfortunately however, at an intellectual and objective level, the good shit you talk is just that, worth as much as the shit smeared on the paper that which floated on my toilet. Two can play at that game.

Seriously? I hardly can describe the person I'm conversing with now a "man" you're no "man" you display the traits and characteristics of the average everyday insecure, immature internet tough guy basement dwelling loser b*tch who thinks he will earn intellectual achievement and dignity by pretentiously posing as a pseudo-intellectual idiotic b*tch on the internet. That you think your antics here would earn you some badge of honor or achievement. You even pathetically and pathologically admit this in subtext judging by when you converted this simple discussion and this innocent old thread into an egotist competition that I didn't want, that I never escalated and you call me the child? No one on this planet with a functioning brain with an ounce of respect think your antics here would earn you a speck of serious intellectual worth. No one. Oh, and your insults and smart-alek bullshit pretentious pseudo-intellectual scribble sound like they were written by a 2 year old kid. Which I'm guessing you are one.

Your disturbing colors and ideation is manifested and apparent where you constantly flip your narratives in your posts to where your narrative switches from being pro-Moro to pro-Filipino and pro-Luzon to outright just pro-Moro and anti-Luzon then back to the former two centered around anti-Visayan bent and narratives. Dafuq? You are totally confused as f*ck about your nationalistic ideology and agenda and you really are thereby confused, why should I have to prove shit to a brain dead dotard like you? Get over yourself you egotistical, brain dead confused mentally ill nut case.

And seriously? You accuse me of being a child? Projection much? Yet your whining here makes you sound like just a little confused child-prostitute begging for attention, clinically disturbing, really. You should probably ask the moderators to ban you from this forum permanently for your own good, for your own protection against me you little whore. LOL!!!

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
- You “don’t think” is just another way of saying you don’t know, dipshit.
Are you turning this discussion into a bluff game? That's what you're doing now. Wow, you must be really desperate.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
- We’re talking about feats in warfare within the Philippine islands, don’t know why you bring up the present when todays war revolves around technology and not guns or swords. You’re getting off topic
Who the f*ck brought up M16s in this thread? Or who is bringing up Nazis? Oh, you did. Don't lecture ME about getting off topic.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
Don’t cut yourself with that edge, kid. The United States dominated the Native Americans and practically blew their culture into oblivion. You’re ignorant of history and your stupidity shows it. Khan nearly conquered the known world and Europe and shaped china heavily.
The f*ck do Native Americans or Central Asians have to do with our discussion?

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
You got your “sources” from Wikipedia LOL
None of my arguments are sourced from Wikipedia if anything, and if it did, you're even less credible than Wikipedia. If anything, Wikipedia is awful because of retards with low thinking skills like yours run it. Not that you're better.

Quote Originally Posted by MaharlikaTimawa View Post
Its soft iron you moron. “cutting limbs” lmao by the time WW2 came, Filipinos were using machetes and cleavers that were made from the techniques that involved European influence. Look up Toledo steel, moron. Soft iron was used extensively in the Philippines prior to Spain, until Spain and later Americans had them adopt steel.

THERE IT IS, you finally admitted you lied about Filipinos historically never making steel blades, now you're back-pedaling. LOL retard, this thread as well as I, was NEVER strictly speaking of so called "Pre-Hispanic Filipino blades" neither were you. Your original claims in several threads and here was that Filipinos NEVER made steel weapons, YOU NEVER ONCE EVER SPECIFIED YOUR ARGUMENT'S DESCRIPTION TO PRE-HISPANIC BLADES, just that you seem to claim ambiguously that historically, FILIPINOS NEVER EVER F*CKING DID EVER AND EVER MADE STEEL WEAPONS, LIKE EVER. But NOW you're FINALLY agreeing they ever did after all, after I called your bullshit out? So instead of admitting you're wrong, answering for your HALF-lie, now you're saying "OH, BUT BEFORE SPAIN" trying to act like you were saying something else then, Oh, bullshit, you only mentioned that now, you're revising your arguments and trying to change the rules of this conversation. Bullshit. You're already deviating from your original arguments. And are you really so F*CKING stupid to believe that there existed a Philippines before Spain? HELLOOOO? Mr. History expert? Does a Jew need to explain to you your f*cking history? You f*cked up. Get over it.

Also, European INFLUENCE keyword, INFLUENCE, nothing more. That's like saying Japanese Katanas are Chinese because they originated from Chinese influence and wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Chinese because reasons, this is a very stupid argument and an incredibly non-nuanced point of view and a piss poor understanding of the fluidity/complexities of cultural-technological history. An INCREDIBLY stupid argument, first of all, even if we PRETEND for a second like an idiot that this standard of yours makes sense, WHICH IT DOESN'T, what's stopping me from just saying all these so called Spanish or American originated blades also have strong FILIPINO influence? Like, are you not aware that Minasbads also have monster-head hilts? No such pure Spanish blade ever exists with an exact design like a Minasbad. No Spanish or American would DARE claim these blades as their own invention, even though they partly contributed to its existence, not one, FOR A REASON, only you are saying that. They wouldn't even have existed without the Filipino element EITHER, get it Thicko? Or is your brain too weak to understand?

Let's use your logic. Where do you think Moros learned how to bladesmith? On their own? Where'd they get their metals? Even some Indonesians and Malaysians can be seen complaining on the internet about how Moros copied off their historical blade designs from them like Dayak blades to Kampilans and Keris to Kris for example and how MOROS take credit for weapons of Malay origin/influence. Are you vouching for the Moros on that? Any advancements Moros had, literally had nothing to do with them on their own, they were closer to the Malay cultural and technological sphere of influence, nothing more. Get out kid. The Moros would NOT have been the same had the Malays remained to the base Austronesian culture, which would not have happened without the Indians. Hell, if it weren't for outside influence, Moros would basically just be almost the same as Igorots.

The only people in the entire Philippine islands who are closest to constructing great marvels of maybe mostly only their invention that your piss-poor standard should be focused on would be the proto-Igorots who constructed the Rice Terraces assuming they didn't steal it from someone else, or to a lesser extent, Batanic peoples who constructed stone castles, assuming the Ryukyuans did not get to it first. Everyone else ripped off and adapted something from somewhere else. Otherwise, only a few like the Igorots or Batanics are carrying the true historical achievements, not Malay-wannabes from the South who can only get taught, but not invent independently.

They imported weapons even after the 16th century you silly cunt. If they didn’t import weapons then where did you think Filipinos got any of their guns? Make it themselves? I’m sure the m16 and m1 grande’s are all Filipino accomplishments because they use them right? That’s your dumb**** mentality right there, that they use them and now you think that makes it theirs.

MaharlikaLoser logic summarized:

*"FILIPINOS GOT M16S TODAY THEREFURE DIS DHA IS HISTORICALLY IMPORTED FROM BURMA HURR DURRR DUDUUUUHHH"*
That is the stupidest f*cking argument I've heard in my life. It's even dumber than the stupid argument I predicted you would make. It's sad I have to stoop this bullshit to refute this.

Seriously, what is the correlation between modern day M16s and pre-20th century antique blades? What do M16s have to do with proving that the post-16th century DHA is totally an imported Burmese blade? That's the best you got? I can even come up with better arguments against my own arguments than you can, disappointing. Your brain is so mush.

Your source from which your argument is based on explicitly determined that such activities or heavy imports of asian blades occurred only in the 16th century. Now you're contradicting it after I showed you what it really meant? Inflating its statement to beyond the 16th century? You don't even agree with your own sources, why should anyone believe you? Why should I take anything you say seriously? You have ZERO credibility.