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Northern Thai/Lanna and many Lao are genetically much closer to Viets than to other Thais

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Qamzardaan
(@qamzardaan)
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@athena 

Thailand might have around 70 ethnic groups, but this country feels homogenous as heck thanks to Thai well Central Thai to be specific being the dominant group due to the annexation of Northern, Isaan and Southern regions by Siam and Thaification policies during Phibunsongkhram's regime, who was the prime minister of Thailand at the time (He changed the name of the country from Siam). This is results in massive assimilation and lost of so many distinct ethnic, cultural and regional identities to make everyone become "Thai" or more specifically Central Thai/Bangkokian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaification.  

Although tbh, this assimilation, integration policies for everyone to become "Central Thai/Siamese" might have begin as early as the reign of King Rama V.

Also a lot maybe even the majority of major Tai language speakers in Thailand including Central Thais, Northeastern/Isaan locals, Northern Thais and Southern Thais don't see themselves as separate or different ethnicities/groups anymore thanks to intense Thaification and just that they are all "Thai" same race and everything so its looks even much more homogenous ethnically now.

The only other non-Thai ethnics you will ever hear on TV/media are the Malay Muslims from the far south, hill tribes (they are composed of different ethnic groups but are often lumped as one group), Moken who are Austronesian speaking sea nomads and maybe isolated Negritos in the south.

But even the Malay Muslims often got called "Thai Islam" or "Thai Muslim" by the native Thai (well Central Thai) speaking majority even though actually they are a totally different ethnic group speaking a totally different language family, have different religion and customs. 

Heck even the majority of the ethnic Chinese here who are the largest minority group and makes up around 14% of the population at least (Thailand has the largest oversea Chinese community in the world outside of China in terms of population) don't really see themselves as distinct ethnically from rest of the Thais anymore especially the younger generation because the vast majority don't even speak or understand their Chinese languages/dialects, speaking only Thai as their first languages even in their own families, have Thai name and are Theravada Buddhists. This is all due to Thaification policy as well.

So yes Thailand might have 70 ethnic groups, but the country seems very monocultural and monolingual or is becoming very homogenous thanks to almost every one becoming assimilated and trying to emulate "Central Thai"/Bangkokian culture and lifestyle. 

Even a lot of the younger generation of Northern Thais, Isaan/Lao, and Southern Thais can't speak their own dialects/languages anymore and can only speak Central Thai (Bangkok dialect and accent to be specific) thanks to their families wanting them to become "Central Thai" and looking down upon their own regional and cultural identities.

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 3:25 am
athena
(@athena)
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@qamzardaan how do they do that? Other countries in SEA can learn from them.

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 1:46 pm
Qamzardaan
(@qamzardaan)
Posts: 487
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Topic starter
 

@athena 

Hmm do you think its a good thing to learn from what Thailand did?

Tbh I'm not happy with it, I feel centralization policies during King Rama V and Thaification policies destroy a lot of ethnic, regional and cultural diversity that used to exist in what is now known as Thailand.

Before the annexation, centralization and creation of modern day Thailand, Northern/Lanna don't consider people from Central Plains/Siam and Southern regions as the same ethnic group as them. Today, this distinction (of thinking they are different ethnically and racially) seems to be gone or totally forgotten as now everyone think they are all "Thai" and the same race.

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 8:03 pm
athena
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@qamzardaan when did they do this mass assimilation? When was Rama V in power? It’s a good thing when it comes to Chinese. They don’t need more empowerment where they live and profit from a country and yet maintains the Han supremacy attitude. 

Lots of Chinese Thai in the government. They are more recent Chinese that is third gen and they don’t speak Chinese? In enclaves in Vietnam, ie Cho Lon, or China town in the old Saigon, now called HO chi Minh city,  you would find 3rd gen who don’t consider themselves Vietnamese and speak Vietnamese as a second language.

otoh, I have met many Vietnamese whom, only after I get to know them found out they were Chinese Viet. Culturally they are Vietnamese though. in southern most part of Vietnam besides Khmer natives, we have enclaves of super old immigrants that came over from the Ming dynasty, I think in the 1700s. these people are all considered Vietnamese after 300 years. They don’t speak Chinese but considered themselves Hoa (Chinese) ethnic. A good example is Happa actress, Olivia Munn, she runs around calling herself Chinese. However, culturally, she’s Vietnamese. Her mother doesn’t speak Chinese, she doesn’t speak Chinese. she doesn’t hide her Vietnamese culture but it’s irritating when she calls herself chinese.

compared that the yukybergs wife, Pricilla Chan. Not sure where her grandparents were born but her parents were born in Vietnam. In Vietnam, their name was “tran” I’m sure but after they came out changed to Cantonese name “Chan”. They don’t even speak Vietnamese at home.

 

 
Posted : 24/06/2022 11:29 pm
Qamzardaan
(@qamzardaan)
Posts: 487
Reputable Member
Topic starter
 

@athena 

When did they do this mass assimilation? When was Rama V in power? It’s a good thing when it comes to Chinese. They don’t need more empowerment where they live and profit from a country and yet maintains the Han supremacy attitude. 

If its for the Chinese, this assimilation process actually have been happening since King Rama VI (Rama V's son) when he made a law that Chinese migrants must adopted Thai names and surnames. Rama V was in power from 1868 to 1910.  The most effective mass assimilation seem to happen during Phibunsongkhram's regime when he was a PM during World War II where thousands of Chinese language schools were close, and most Chinese begin adopting Thai customs, Theravada Buddhism and begin losing their dialects. 

Lots of Chinese Thai in the government. They are more recent Chinese that is third gen and they don’t speak Chinese? In enclaves in Vietnam, ie Cho Lon, or China town in the old Saigon, now called HO chi Minh city,  you would find 3rd gen who don’t consider themselves Vietnamese and speak Vietnamese as a second language.

Yep there's lots of them in government, business and even media. The vast majority of ethnic Chinese Thais especially 3rd generations (although Thai Chinese is more popular in usage) can't understand/speak Chinese anymore, not even their native dialects. I see, so they don't integrate?

otoh, I have met many Vietnamese whom, only after I get to know them found out they were Chinese Viet. Culturally they are Vietnamese though. in southern most part of Vietnam besides Khmer natives, we have enclaves of super old immigrants that came over from the Ming dynasty, I think in the 1700s. these people are all considered Vietnamese after 300 years. They don’t speak Chinese but considered themselves Hoa (Chinese) ethnic. A good example is Happa actress, Olivia Munn, she runs around calling herself Chinese. However, culturally, she’s Vietnamese. Her mother doesn’t speak Chinese, she doesn’t speak Chinese. she doesn’t hide her Vietnamese culture but it’s irritating when she calls herself chinese.

Are there more Chinese who can speak Chinese in Vietnam or those who can't? Interesting seems like those Chinese have already integrated. 

compared that the yukybergs wife, Pricilla Chan. Not sure where her grandparents were born but her parents were born in Vietnam. In Vietnam, their name was “tran” I’m sure but after they came out changed to Cantonese name “Chan”. They don’t even speak Vietnamese at home.

 

I see. There seem to be varying levels of assimilation and integration among the Hoa in Vietnam.

 
Posted : 26/06/2022 6:10 pm
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