CIPANGU: Is it Luzon or Nippon? The Filipino vs the Japanese claim.

 Originally Posted by Selurong 

I think Cipangu was indeed the Philippines and during that time Japan was known by another name: in Chinese records it was called the state of Wa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(Japan)

And it was famous for Silver not Gold (the Rajahnate of Butuan in the Phils was the one famous for gold). Furthermore, the state of Wa (root-word for Wakuo/Wokuo) was already a well-known country. 

So, Cipangu couldn't be Japan because China knew it as Wa but didn't know about the "Southern Barbarians" of the sea people; until a much later time when a King from the Sulu Sultanate (Pre-Islamic period) introduced itself quite late in the game; around the 800s whereas Wa was known as Japan in 57 A.D.

 Originally Posted by MrC 

No Japan was not well known. It was known about, that is a big difference. The Chinese history books mention Japan here and there, that's all. Otherwise Japan was a complete mystery. What was Japan like? What was their culture? What was notable in riches? What was notable about the people? What plants and animals are found there? They knew nothing other than the country exited. Check your link; its mostly dates of meeting a Wa person or when a Wa ambassador came to Chinese court. Japan is a mystery because people didn't come to Japan to trade - Japan went out to other countries to trade. The only people that actually went to Japan back then were the Chinese surveyors that wrote about Japan and the Baekji who were allies with Japan from 300 to 600 until their country fell. All people knew about Japan was that far to the west was a people called Wa that lived on Islands. 

About the Philippines not being known during the time of Marco Polo. I think it was well known and actively visited by many countries: Vietnam, Japan, China, India, Indonesia, Persia, Cambodia and areas now comprised in Thailand. The Chinese have records about the Philippines from way back then. surely they would have corrected Polo. If not China than some one from the other countries that new and traded with the Philippines. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ippine_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines

I'm going to stop looking things up because actually, its not that interesting enough for me to research the matter. I found out a lot of interesting history about Japan and the Philippines but I'm tired of studying, I want to have fun after i get off work!

The Chinese Empire under admiral Zheng Ho apparently tried to destroy or subjugate Lu-Song that's why some Filipinos sided with the Spanish against the Chinese who were also quite numerous around the kingdom of Luzon. 

Either way. 

Its probably in revenge to the conquest of Zeng Ho that we allied with the Spanish. It was primarily the Hiligaynons from the Visayas especially in the Confederation of Madya-as (who had a blood feud with the Half Chinese from the Kingdom of Lusung and had warred against and pirated Chinese shipping) 

The Manila Galleons were originally built in Oton, Iloilo before it began to be built around Cavite, Manila.

And it rivaled Zeng Ho's treasure fleet. 
(I'm guessing the vengeful Hiligaynons of Madya-as wanted to make ships that would rival Zeng Ho's to spite the Chinese oppressors)

Zeng Ho's treasure fleet ships: 137 m long and 55 m. 
The Manila Galleons: 130 m long and 51.5 meters wide with 4 decks and displacing some 2,000+ tons.

(An impressive feat for a tiny island-country to have ships that would rival Imperial China's in total size and capacity)

The gigantic galleons were a direct response to the treasure fleet. And when Luzon was finally occupied by the Spanish, the Visayans brought about their vengeance by participating in the first massacre of Chinese and Japanese at the Kingdom of Luzon (Which the Visayans hated as a bunch of pirates or imperialists and the half Japanese and half Chinese of Luzon; children of pirates or imperialists as the Lucoes were collaborators with the Japanese and Chinese anyway [to gain access to their ports and hence their wealth])

^ Ha I just discovered that Zeng Ho's Ship sizes were greatly exaggerated

Treasure ships' dimensions are debated on practical engineering grounds, with some suggesting they were as short as 61–76 m (200–250 feet) or that they could only have been used on special occasions in the relative safety of the lower Yangtze River. Although a claimed treasure ship rudder has been unearthed in Nanjing, China, its size is no larger than rudders known to have been used in <60m long Jiangsu traders in the 1930s, so cannot be taken as evidence of the uprooted giant dimensions..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_treasure_ship

Which means, that the Manila Galleons are the largest actual sea-worthy ships ever made.

One explanation for the alleged size of these colossal ships was that the largest 44 Zhang treasure ships were merely for a display of imperial power by the Emperor and imperial bureaucrats on the Yangtze River when on court business, including when reviewing Zheng He's actual expedition fleet. The Yangtze River, with its calmer waters, may have been navigable for such large but unseaworthy ships. Zheng He would not have had the privilege in rank to command the largest of these ships. The largest ships of Zheng He's fleet were the 6 masted 2000-liao ships. This would give burden of 500 tons and a displacement tonnage of about 800 tons

Lol? China's ships were merely 800 tons. 

Whereas the Manila built El Concepción, wrecked in 1638, was 43 to 49 m (140–160 feet) long and displacing some 2,000 tons.