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Human Biology Pure Vietnamese DNA

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dyno avatar
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James avatar
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@dyno

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Original Vietnamese are called Champa similar to Austronesians until they were forced to use chopsticks. 

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athena
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@james he doesn’t look like either parents. Are they sure his mom didn’t have a Champa friend? :d

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dyno avatar
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@james the natives of Vietnam are called Hoabinhians

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athena
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@dyno hoabinhnians were an ancient people believed to be native SEA. Sorry had to quote wiki bc I haven’t researched extensively. They are what today we call negritos. They were also found in other areas I think Malaysia, etc…They are not todays Vietnamese. Todays Vietnamese, called Kinh since they’re the dominant ethnic group that define Vietnam and Vietnamese, were likely indigenous people from southern China, I think similar to Thai people. In Vietnam we call them Tay. They are a minority group in Vietnam who look very similar to Kinh. In Thailand called Thai. The Kinh with southern migration, mixed in with previous settlers, Cham, who are similar to Khmer ie Cambodian and over years of colinization, some Chinese. Although considering the long periods, not that much integration of Chinese gene pool. I think in term of just outward appearance, it makes sense, since many Vietnamese look like people from Laos or Thai/Tay ethnic.

here’s the article and graphs comparing genetic studies of Vietnam ethnic groups. You can see Kinh groups close to Thai, Tay.

The following is heavily genetic jargon I don’t quite understand without cracking open a genetic textbook. The graphs are useful I think. In short if you apply the lefts systemic racism standard, China has just as bad a genocide history as they have stolen land, destroyed ethnic identities. Kinh have been pushed down to SEA but their numbers helped them survive. Many other smaller groups don’t even know they’re not Han. Their identity completely forgotten.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-019-0557-4

we calculated a five-dimensional MDS and depicted the results in a heat plot (Supplementary Material Fig. S3Aand B). The Kinh, Thai, and Tay remained centrally located across all five dimensions for both markers (Supplementary Material Fig. S3A and B), while the Mang remain an outlier in most dimensions in the MSY

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dyno avatar
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@athena Do you have any pure blooded Kihn that scored 99% on the AncestryDNA test. Jeffrey scored 100% because his DNA matches the population of Da Nang, Vietnam 

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Qamzardaan
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@athena 

Can she pass as Viet/Kinh? She is ethnic Phu Thai from Northeast Thailand and related to the Thai of Northwest Vietnam, Nung and Tay:

https://www.tiktok.com/@khimkd8/video/7059558447435517210?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

https://www.tiktok.com/@khimkd8/video/7049307284140231962?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

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athena
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@qamzardaan ugh, influencer type. I don’t think they look Vietnamese.

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Qamzardaan
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@athena 

Same girl. Well hard to find her pics without tiktok stuff

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athena
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@qamzardaan wow, look like different girls with lighting and make up. Lips too big. Most Vietnamese girls don’t have big lips.

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athena
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@dyno Tay ethnic in Vietnam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tày_people

 

https://www.vietnam-tour.biz/tay-ethnic-group-second-biggest-one-viet-nam/

With the number of around 1.7 million Vietnamese people accounting for 2% of the Vietnamese population, Tay ethnic minority group settles mainly in mountain areas or high lands of the northern and northwestern provinces such as Cao Bang, Lang Son, Bac Kan, Thai Nguyen, Quang Ninh, Ha Giang, smaller numbers in Bac Ninh and Bac Giang. It was considered to present soon in the year 500 BC. This group is also known as Tho, Tai Tho, T’o, Ngan, Phen, Thu Lao, or Pa Di.

some pictures of Tay people.

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dyno avatar
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@athena Are you Viet?

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athena
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@dyno yes.

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@dyno we have lots of Vietnamese here

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@dyno be careful with the Viets. through my years being around them, Some of them wished to be Chinese and looked down on other SEA-looking Vietnamese.

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dyno avatar
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@zexsypmp23 what have you been smoking bruh? Vietnamese hates chinese with passion as much as malays and Indonesians.

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athena
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@dyno we hate Chinese for their aggression and prejudice. However, many Vietnamese esp the ones who live in Vietnam and have not been exposed to diversity, look down on SEA. It’s the sino sphere pride that get passed along with Chinese racism. In addition, EA have always been more economically ahead of SEA, adding to the sentiment. 

However, you should not confuse cultural identity with discrimination. Vietnam culturally is  in the sino sphere. Nothing is going to change that. You can look at it like this, Japanese may dislike China, but they will not abandon their cultural identity which was heavily influenced by China. That’s just how it works with cultural identity. Within any area, there are cultural progenitors.  In the East Asia and Vietnam, it’s China, in SEA it’s India. In Europe, it’s Rome.

so let say we hate China and we like the Philippines.  Does that mean we won’t eat with chopsticks or abandon our mandarin collar and start wearing filipino style clothings? No. Just as the Japanese and Korean will never abandon their kimono and Hanbok? These dresses were derived from old Chinese hanfu, before the Manchu took over and made popular the mandarin collar. 

to show you what’s it’s like, growing up I never knew many of our traditions came from China. To me it’s just Vietnamese. Like the lunar new year, the autumn festival, ect…It was only after I became an educated adult, I knew these things. 

I don’t look down on the philipines or filipino. I shop in a Filipino market near my house and I do like a lot of what they hav, lots of fresh fish mainly. and I shop at the Chinese ranch 99 too but I find ranch 99 has a lot more of what we use in the kitchen for more traditional dishes. For example, I had to go to ranch 99 for fresh Thai basil. The Filipino market doesn’t have it. Just a small example.

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@athena cultures evolve over time. If Vietnamese hate Chinese so much then why don't Vietnamese evolve away from Chinese culture like Koreans and Japanese?

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athena
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@dyno I think you’re mixing modernization vs cultural identity.

In term of identity, I don’t think Japanese and Korean cultures evolve that much from Chinese culture compared to vietnam. For example Koreans still celebrate lunar new year and moon festival in a big way. Japan not so big on lunar new year but still celebrate moon festival. The kimono and the hanbok esp the hanbok is very almost identical to hanfu. We all eat with chopsticks. Korean budhist temples are not much different from chinese Buddhist temple. Korean vocabulary has  75% Chinese loan words, Vietnamese 60% loan words. In fact you can say, Vietnam has evolved away even more by successfully roman-alphabetized its writing system while Korea and Japanese although have some sort of native alphabet, their writing is still written in pictographs, the system derived from Chinese.

The point is culture is so ingrained that even thought the culture may initially derived from another country, after a while, it becomes your culture. For example, Thai culture was derived from Indian culture but has developed its own flavor to become “Thai” culture. 

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athena
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@dyno On further thought, I think you were referring to the amount of westernization. That is kinda mixed. For example, in the sino sphere I think in many ways JP is more westernized anime, or their attitude about sex, for example, or interracial marriages, I think you see more of it among Koreans and jpnese than in Vietnam or China, or the popularity of western classical music in Korea and jp is very prominent. Certain habits for example, Vietnamese talk loudly in public, my pet peeve, like the Chinese but you don’t see that in Korean or jpnese. The thing you see among Vietnamese and different from all the other countries, is the women’s adherence to their traditional dress even while attending mainstream events. Theses are just some examples off the top.

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@dyno I said ''some''. ll make another thread explaining the cultural differences that we need to be aware of

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That boy in the picture does not look Vietnamese at all. The Vietnamese in my class have small eyes like the Chinese. 

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@naval Natives of Vietnam have rounder eyes but the Chinese invaded their land to spread their seed. If we are not careful China might claim the Philippines because of tsinoys running around screaming black lives matter.

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@james BLM is in Hong Kong, not the Philippines.

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@naval get a DNA test, I would love to see your DNA results

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@dyno you have 100$ sure I'll take the DNA but i am not paying for it

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dyno avatar
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@naval

 

Most of Vietnamese have round eyes. Vietnamese with slit eyes are usually mixed with Chinese. 

image

 

They do not have the same DNA. Vietnamese people are quite different from Chinese people. You could tell Vietnamese from Chinese by the following facial differences. Vietnamese have well-defined facial structure with deep eye sockets and straight eyes. Also, many Vietnamese have double eye lids. The picture below shows typical Vietnamese facial features.

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ASIANS 4 BLACK LIVES MATTER 黑人的命也是命 avatar
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@dyno Athena is probably a hapa or married to a white person.

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Screenshot 2022 06 14 215247

Pure Viet without Chinese 

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athena
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 @dyno I think you could say these people are pure Viet. There’s an ethnic group in Vietnam called Muong. Not to be confused with Hmong. They and Kinh are the same people. Kinh migrated to the lowland. Muong stayed in the mountain. So they don’t have as much mixing as Kinh.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muong_people

The Mường (Vietnamese: Người Mường) are an ethnic group native to northern Vietnam. The Muong is the country's third largest of 53 minority groups, with an estimated population of 1.45 million (according to the 2019 census). The Muong people inhabit the mountainous region of northern Vietnam, concentrated in Hòa Bình Province and the mountainous districts of Thanh Hóa Province. They are most closely related to the ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh).

The Muong speak the Muong language, a close relative of Vietnamese. Writing based on the Vietnamese alphabet appeared in the 20th century, introduced by Western scholars. The Muong aristocracy were already familiar with Chinese writing through their study of the Confucian canon.

The Muong language is mainly used in the domestic sphere of communication. Most native speakers also speak Vietnamese.

 

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@athena
The Muong is the country's third largest of 53 minority groups, with an estimated population of 1.45 million (according to the 2019 census

How can a minority be considered as a true viet? 

 

 

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athena
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@james I don’t know what are the criteria by which you group people into an ethnic group. Muong and kinh were the same people. Kinh is an old sino Vietnamese word that means city. So I guess you’re are either mountain people or city people and Muong may just be an old word meaning mountain. I don’t know.  Anyway, after a thousand years, the language became two languages. If you hear a Muong speaks, it sounds like jibberish northern Vietnamese. I don’t understand them. However, if you have the caption, now I can recognize some the words. They have very different stress/accent on the same word. That is something I think a linguist would enjoy investigating.

listen to a Muong news person:

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Posted by: @athena

@james I don’t know what are the criteria by which you group people into an ethnic group. Muong and kinh were the same people. Kinh is an old sino Vietnamese word that means city. So I guess you’re are either mountain people or city people and Muong may just be an old word meaning mountain. I don’t know.  Anyway, after a thousand years, the language became two languages. If you hear a Muong speaks, it sounds like jibberish northern Vietnamese. I don’t understand them. However, if you have the caption, now I can recognize some the words. They have very different stress/accent on the same word. That is something I think a linguist would enjoy investigating.

listen to a Muong news person:

Lol why does asian 4 black lives matter say you are white 😀. I can clearly say you are Vietnamese because no foreigner will claim Muong and Kinh as the same people 😉 

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athena
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@james news in Muong. I noticed some sounds we don’t have in Vietnamese. P sound. Vietnamese because of old Chinese influence P sounds is replaced with b sound. 

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@athena I suspect that muong and austronesians have the same ancestors 

image
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athena
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@james where is considered the origin of Austronesians?

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SapphireSky
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@james where is considered the origin of Austronesians?

 

The Liangzhu Culture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liangzhu_culture

"The type site at Liangzhu was discovered in Yuhang CountyZhejiang and initially excavated by Shi Xingeng in 1936. A 2007 analysis of the DNA recovered from human remains shows high frequencies of Haplogroup O1 in Liangzhu culture linking this culture to modern Austronesian and Tai-Kadai populations. It is believed that the Liangzhu culture or other associated subtraditions are the ancestral homeland of Austronesian speakers."

 

Video Discussion:

 

 

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@sapphiresky dangerous information because this can be used as a propaganda when war breaks.

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James avatar
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@zexsypmp23 chinese will claim anything austronesian and Polynesians as theirs 🤣

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@sapphiresky thanks for confirming that vietnamse, thais and filipinos have the same ancestor. Han chinese originated from the yellow river and expanded south to steal the lands of austronesians and vietnamese. 

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athena
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@james I noticed the Muong does not have “V” sound either. I think V is replaced by w. Kinh Vietnamese have both “v” and “w” sound. You hear a man speaking in the news clip sometimes, that man speaks northern Vietnamese. Also they have loan words from Vietnamese and sino Vietnamese too so it’s confusing to listen to them.

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How much chinese dna in vietnamese 

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athena
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@james I was curious as to how these people get “100% Vietnamese” DNA. I think it means their DNA markers are 100% consistent with other Kinh people.

According to this wiki link.
The link referred to several studies which I didn’t read up on. You would have to so a critical reading of these studies to see if they are quality studies since some of them have small samples.

so if you believe this wiki claim, then the 12% East Asian can probably be attributed to Chinese. I suspect if you break down this 12% East Asian, you can further see what proportion of this 12% is consistent with Han ethnicity.

 

 

Vietnamese show a close genetic relationship with other Southeast Asians.[152] The reference population for Vietnamese (Kinh) used in the Geno 2.0 Next Generation is 83% Southeast Asia & Oceania, 12% Eastern Asia and 3% Southern Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people

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@athena so vietnamese is 12% southern Chinese? Is this fully Chinese or Chinese mixed within kinh dna? 

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athena
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@james no idea. I have not research any of these genetic data banks so I don’t know what ‘Chinese’ means. When they say Chinese I assume Han.

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@athena how did so many Chinese move to Vietnam anyway?

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athena
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@james you don’t know Vietnamese history. Vietnam was a colony of China very early in its formation. You attribute unshakable Spanish influence on the philipines after 300 years of colonization. Try 1,000 years for Vietnam. Went all the way back to Chinese Han dynasty starting 100 years BC.

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@athena filipinos erased the Spanish language and moved away from Amerization into more of the native austronesian. Spain moved back to Spain and Americans moved back to America. So why can't the Chinese descendant leave Vietnam back to China.

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athena
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@james there are many waves of immigration so not all can move back. Besides, the colonial leadership have moved back as Vietnam has not been a colony of China for at least 400 years. Same as the philipines. As for its citizens, Many have moved back I’m sure. It’s more like the mestizos in the philipines. In Vietnam, not common to see mestizos in entertainment or beauty contest, they are the norm rather than the exception when you look at the philipines. Vietnam also has a lot more native heritage whereas as pre colonial island culture is not as prominent in the philipines. Some obvious things is the daily clothings in the villages,  food, many has commonality with Cambodian culture, or Laotians.

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Qamzardaan
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He looks Pino rather than Viet in my humble opinion. Probably has Cham or Khmer admixture.

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