So every now and then, I get messages from random white people stating “You are an Asian supremacist for posting on r/aznidentity or r/sino or r/asianmasculinity“. It made no sense to me, because I have never stated I believe Asians are superior to all. Unlike white racists, I don’t use physical characteristics such as height, or penis size, or cranial shapes, or colored eyes, or colored hair to determine who’s “better”. And I hardly bash anyone else besides white people.
So the logic is if you bash white people, then you are an Asian supremacist.
Then it dawned on me, that those people are racist. Why?
Because subconsciously, in their mind, they have white people as the best and everyone below white people. So to them, when I bash white people, I put white lower than Asian, and their mind already sorted out that Hispanics, blacks, Muslims, native Americans, south Asians, Micronesian, Polynesian, Arabs, Turks, Persians are lower than white.
In a way, these people are racist without knowing they already have a pre-determined hierarchy in their head.
It was an interesting find to me. I wish it share it with you all.
Most of this sub is about Asians understanding their experience in the West; combating Anti-Asianism, etc. But yes, some of it is observing and evaluating Western culture. Is it heresy to critique elements of white culture? White culture is so dominant in this country, it largely determines American culture – which affects us all. To critique is to allow for problem-solving. Because we are American; when we engage in such critiques, these are a kind of self-criticisms as well. When people abroad talk of “loud obnoxious Americans”- we are tarred by that as well; and therefore have an obligation to help fix it.
We don’t critique to say necessarily our way is better. After all, we are American too, just like them — “our culture” is mixed in with theirs. But to call out certain tendencies in whites- such as trying to dominate an interaction, or badmouth someone in earshot- these are healthy steps towards a better society. After all, whites are the primary victims of white aggressions such as these. To honestly call them out where they go wrong and to elevate their conduct is to raise the quality of life all in the West- regardless of race. We have the gift of objectivity and sight because we are not too close to the problem, that we cannot see
or is it because it is mostly white people who do this. so if you ever point out something white people do like projecting their racism or critiquing white cultural elements that are problematic like casual racism, gaslighting, historical revisionism then you’re an asian/black/latino supremacist? l**o are you sure you’re asian? you sound dumb af. white people are the people in power and we get affected by the type of s**t they do because they have the power in every level of society, not us so naturally the discussions are going to involve white people and their behaviour. you’re not an equal opportunity basher, you’re a white larper or a dumb uncle chan who takes in white talking points and parrots the same talking points in asians subs so you can defend your white massah whenever they get talked about in a negative way.
There’s this very macho male-centered viewpoint
That’s the result of being an activist subreddit that is pro-Asian. When you are trying to reject and protect yourself against the white status-quo, you have to be militant to some degree. This isn’t exclusive to us, it is just the natural reaction of being marginalized. I don’t see how that makes us right-wing conservative. You do realize that this subreddit advocates for dating out with all races right? We’re not anti-interracial but we consider the socio-racial dynamic and context behind the pairing.
that tends to exclude women’s and lgbt experiences.
I don’t know if you’re new to the subreddit but there are LGBT and women who post here albeit low in numbers . There have been countless POC, women and LGBT folks who’ve shown support for us in the past. There are no rules barring women or LGBT folks from giving their perspective so you have to ask – are they being excluded by us or is it self-imposed?
Another thing you have to take into consideration is that – are their views aligned with the white status-quo? You can be an Asian women or LGBT but if you’re using the same white talking points that is used to dismiss and gaslight Asian issues then you’re gonna get negative backlash. Often times this is the case and they can’t handle being challenged so they leave.
It’s not just with Asian women and LGBT who do this, there are Asian men who do this too but there are more Asian men who are attracted to this subreddit so there’s more Asian men who stay. There’s also the case of our experiences being Asian is different because of our s*x – some call it gendered racism. Because we live in a white patriarchal society – an Asian women can get more leeway than an Asian man in the sense that you can get privilege by proxy by getting with a white man and you can sort of buy your way into white society like that. I’m not using this as the biggest reason but it’s just one of the many nuances you have to understand to understand this subreddit. There is no other place on the internet that does what we do which is why we get 2-3 million views in a month. There are millions of people who are lurking, all good and bad but there must be something here if there that many people paying attention.
-if we want to combat oppression, we need to heed all factors playing into this. Not just race. The way some men on here talk about “AF”, is simply racist/sexist in itself. It’s reinforcing mechanisms of oppression, simply appropriating the white man’s tools in the hopes of establishing for themselves a better position. Having a few minorities on here does not mean anything in that light. (Neither does having minorities in the alt right for example.)
You’re gonna have to clarify what “ways some men on here talk about AF” because in most of the cases, the AF are doing something problematic i.e. proudly claiming her white worship by talking down on AM (saying white men are better because XY and Z when statistics show that white men kill more Asian women than Asian men), giving a pass to her SO for saying or doing something racist, validating Asian stereotypes (usually about the men) to non-Asians as a way of signalling that she’s not “with the Asians” and so on. In these instances, they are bashed and rightfully so.
You might be asking “well how come you don’t do the same with AMs?” – it’s because there’s not a lot of them doing the same problematic thing as the AF’s I mentioned above and it relates to AF getting leeway into western society and ratio of WMAF being 3-4x higher than AMWF so naturally, they’re more likely to be in a position to be problematic compared to AMs. It’s not just because we’re biased towards AF, if you’ve been long enough in this subreddit. You would see that uncle Chans get based on a regular basis too. I do not see this as a way of establishing a better position for ourselves. It’s about policing problematic behaviors from Asians both men and women alike that are harmful to the Asian community as a whole.
Sadly, this sub (though we can’t really blame people for that) only seems to focus on AM vs WM/AF. While in reality, AF are just as much victims of racism+sexism. A large part of men in the West regard women of Asian descent (subconsciously) as timid yet sexually available, dehumanizing them to this base pattern.
We know that and I agree with the latter part and we do support our sisters who are pro-Asian, the ones who do get bashed the ones complicit in their sexual fetishization and dehumanization like I gave e.g.s above. They are the AF’s that we are referring to. I think what happens is that newcomers don’t realize this and they feel personally attacked so then they leave. We really should make a point to distinguish the two.
this is not to say we shouldn’t challenge oppressive views brought to us by folks who are already oppressed for their views/colour/sexuality, it’s that too many times I’ve seen people on go out of their way to invalidate the experiences of other minorities with arguments solely based on those latter factors. That’s not to start on how insane it is to start being racist against whites.
Their experiences are invalidated only when they use their own frame of experience to gaslight and invalidate ours. For e.g. If a Black person comes in to tell us that Asians are anti-Black which we generally agree with but they refuse to acknowledge that there is anti-Asian sentiments including violence in the Black community as well.
All of this forms a strong argument for this sub to adapt a more intersectional approach for fighting oppression, and not be singlemindedly focused on the role of just white men. Otherwise we risk alienating and oppressing other minorities ourselves.
-and being oppressed by other minorities but agreed.