I agree with our member ''ASIANS 4 BLACK LIVES MATTER 黑人的命也是命'' on this one. What they don't tell you about these I.Q test used for the racial bell curve is that most of the test takers are ages 13-18 which is misused in science.
@dyno comparing iPhone 13 released in 2022 to a android galaxy released in 2016 is not science at all.
plus there is a cultural I.Q which should not be on the test at all.
@zexsypmp23 like it or not, the IQ test does correlate with cognitive ability. In real life, IQ generally correlates with sucess. However there are many people who do well in life despite average IQ.
I never saw IQ test used for any kind of academic admissions so to claim the IQ test is racist is a stretch.
Ability such as pattern recognition is universal and not bound by cultures. That’s why they’re able to test IQ of animals who are not even verbal.
@athena I.Q test consist of 4 scale
1) memory ( how fast can you remember '13vjcahe4'' backwards)
2) processing speed ( how fast can you solve a problem)
3)Non-verbal reasoning is sometimes called abstract reasoning. It involves solving problems usually presented in diagram or picture form. This means that visual clues are more important than words — hence the term non-verbal.
4)
@zexsypmp23 In general cognitive function consists of executive functions: abstraction, pattern recognition, decision making, the ability to prioritize and plan tasks. Processing speed is a part of these abilities. Memory is part of IQ but you can also have superior recall/memory without super IQ.
Have you ever taken an IQ test?
here is an example of Verbal comprehension. this is linked to the previous education & daily use of the English language.
A 13 year old Brazilian Immigrant might fail this Verbal comprehension, but he might be able to build his own Netflix online by the time he is 25-40
@athena I.Q test are taken at pre-teen and high school to weed out the retarded. S.A.T test are used actually to calculate a teenager capability in university.
Yes, I have taken it in high school and most of my male peers are thinking about getting out of class instead of the racial bell curve.
If the I.Q test were presented as a study to differentiate the IQ between races, then I bet you, most of the youth would have been in top of their game.
@zexsypmp23 what do you mean by”weeding out”? we don’t call them retards now. They have an intellectual or developmental disability. The two often go together. Most intellectually challenged people have some sort of developmental syndrome that affect their function globally. Are you familiar with regional centers? That’s where people with these disabilities go to get assistance. I think the testing in school is used to identify those people so they could get accommodations ie special education, etc…
@athena ok, I meant special ed kids. before getting a driving license. One must pass the eye vision, hearing, physical exam & written test.
the purpose of the DMV test is to weed out potential danger on the road. DMV tests were never meant to find the next Nascar racing champion nor were created to find the different driving capabilities between different races, sex, or age.
@zexsypmp23 The more accurate term here is “identify” not “weed out”. Weed out imply to exclude. You identify those in needs so they could get help. Less often mainly because there are far fewer genuses than low IQ, those kids with very high IQ can be offered special programs for the very gifted. Most middle of the road generic smart students get placed advanced classes. I knew people because of learning disability, get extra time on tests, or get to take the test later than others. In order to qualify for special services and financial aid, IQ tests are often administered. After all, Down syndrome or many developmental syndromes do have IQ as a criterion.
@athena I stand to be corrected. The PC word is “identify”
gifted child. Two to 3 percent of children are considered highly gifted, showing IQ scores of at least 130
@zexsypmp23 not PC at all. When you say weed out, you imply the person is eliminated. The navel guy was accusing racists of using the IQ test to exterminate people therefore when you say the IQ test is used to weed out people, it reinforce his erroneous belief. It’s different than weeding out the people who do poorly on driving test. In the driving situation, low test score denies the privilege of driving. When IQ test is administered, the low scorers don’t get anything taken away, instead they get the help they may need. Choice of words make a difference here.
@athena bell curve is controverial online. it's impossible not to associate it witht he alt right motivation. from my understanding, it's outlaw by the government because too many misused of the tool.
@zexsypmp23 I knew you were going to say that. I don't trust google search. The bell curve the book is controversial only because of a far reaching conclusion by the social justice warriors to whom, even a mention of the IQ test conjures up white supremacy. Even wikipedia, who is quite leftish and while complaining of racism, outlines the author's assertions which are not racist at all.
A similar situation is the swastika. The left-facing swastika that rests on its leg is an ancient symbol of auspiciousness that has existed thousands of years before the German nazis came into being. The Nazis swastika is right-facing and rests on its knee.
Because of this history, any mention of the swastika, even the Left-facing one, is denounced as a racist symbol.
A while back, an online fashion retailer, I think it was Shein, thought it was cool to make a Left facing swastika necklace pendant and boy, did they face backlash. They had to stop making it and groveled with an apology.
There's an old building, I think built in the 20's-30's (pre WWII), around Los Angeles area that had the Left facing swastikas high on its front. They covered it up too.
@athena having a swastika anywhere will lead to violence even if it means Hindu, you are correct!
now when it comes to IQ test, this happens so you are correct but it is what it is.
MENSA MEMBER OUT SMARTED | IQ TEST IS RACIST? | JEDIAH MEETS TY @ SPEAKERS CORNER - YouTube
@zexsypmp23 I stand corrected. Both the left facing and the right facing swastika were auspicious. I was more familiar with the left facing one because it is used in Buddhism. In Vietnam, you see the left facing one in Buddhist temples.
https://knoji.com/article/the-left-facing-swastika/
In Buddhism and Hinduism, it is known as a symbol of good luck, perhaps representing eternity, or the two different types of forces in the endless cycle of death and rebirth called Samsara.
There is the right facing swastika, or the one highjacked by the Nazi party, which represents the evolution of the universe (pravritti), and the left-facing swastika, which symbolizes the involution of the universe (Nivritti, the process that allows creation to happen).
The left facing swastika is most commonly known as a symbol of Buddhism, and is used on maps to indicate a Buddhist temple, and the symbol is still found on many ancient temples, and other works of art.
@zexsypmp23 Verbal comprehension is basically communication skills needed to work together in the professional world. Communication is as universal as wolves & lions working together in packs.
a person's capacity to comprehend the language utilized by other people, as ascertained by their receptive vocabulary and linguistics abilities.
@naval I don't believe in the accuracy of the I.Q test measurement of our very complex brains with simple puzzle questions.
when I get the I.Q data, I will get back on this topic
Are IQ tests effective at measuring intelligence?
general, Yes.
IQ tests are very accurate for individuals and correlate with performance in school and salary later in life. But accurately guessing the IQ of a nation or large group is much more difficult, and is very often faulty.
Keep in mind that after all, the IQ test is just a “test”. It is not a magic genie that simply knows what your IQ is. It attempts to find what your real IQ is by a series of puzzles and questions, and is usually accurate. But again, there are many faults.
For example:
- In China, researchers only used an online test to determine that their national IQ was “105”. Since it was only online, the sample group is most likely only urban people with education and internet access. It might not accurately represent China as a whole, given ~45% of the population still lives in rural areas and farms for a living.
- In a few African countries, the average IQ was determined to be “65”. An IQ of 65 would make you “mildly” retarded. A mildly retarded adult usually has memory issues, difficulty socializing, difficulty expressing themselves, has issues getting dressed or feeding themselves, depends on others for help with daily tasks, and is unable to think of consequences.
But the average adult in those countries is self-sustainable, mature, and has no difficulty speaking with others. When you visit there, you don’t see what’s essentially “special-needs” people all over the place. How could this be?
Researchers found it very hard to get a large sample group because people live in very isolated clusters, and 20 people in one village won’t ever be able to accurately predict the national IQ. They decided to give the test to a bunch of middle schoolers, since it was the only large grouping of people they could find that was from several regions and not just one.
So here was their issue: They only had adult IQ tests, and the only viable sample group was middle schoolers. What did they decide to do? Just give it to them anyways! And boom, because 300 middle schoolers got a 65 average on an adult IQ test, that means the average adult in their country has an IQ of 65.
Are their IQ’s probably lower than modern European nations? Yes.
But is their IQ average actually 65? Definitely not.
3. Also, IQ researchers simply “extrapolate” (guess) IQ of certain countries they can’t conduct studies inside of, based off of neighboring countries. In North Korea, the average IQ is “105”. Have they conducted an actual study in North Korea? No, they just took the IQ from neighboring South Korea and gave them the same number. Nevermind the lack of education and starvation occurring inside of North Korea, let’s just assume they have the same intelligence as one of the most highly educated and modern countries in Asia.
4. IQ tests (for the most part) were also designed for Western people. If you take an IQ test and give it to a villager who has never held a pencil or ever seen a puzzle, he would surely be confused and therefore score lower. Since tests are timed, those things will definitely make him score worse. We wouldn’t give an interactive online test to somebody who’s never used a computer before.
IQ test doesn't measure Intelligence 🤦🏻♂️.
Mental age doesn't define intelligence.
Chronological age(Physical Age) doesn't define Intelligence.
By definition :
“the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.”
Can someones mental age or physical clock define Intelligence ? effectively ?🙈 Nope
The Idea of IQ scores is only to determine the speed at which your can mentally grasp/acquire Information.. applying it and converting it to skill, isn't something that can be accurately tested with a pencil or a piece of paper.
So it's not an effective way of trying to calculate Intelligence.
Profession choices.
When these scores are studied, they noticed that at an average these scores created a trendline in proffessions.
Bu it doesn't mean that a social worker cannot be good at physics am d astronomy or someone from physics and astronomy cannot teach elementry school.Having an IQ score doesn't define your profession either.
Gifted people weren't discovered after their IQ scores, they were first discovered and then were given an IQ test ironic isn't it.
So in a way all an IQ score will tell something about someone is, how good they are at obsorbing data, and processing data and recollecting data.
But data alonedoesnt make someone intelligent, making use of that data to covert it into something Effective, that's something that can't be captured by a test.
So intelligence ? No
Speed ? Yes
IQ = kilometers/h or miles/h so speed at which information is processed in a brain..
So the speed of flickering in the brains has its limitations. I read a white paper by Erhan Grenc and his team of misfits 😜
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-04268-8.pdf
Who did an experiment in 2015 on understanding about diffusion markers in the played an important role of how these flickering lights in the brain were corelated to their IQ Scores.
The human 🧠 is a big old bowl of noodles🤣😂, and if there is more grey matter in the right zones of the brain it's possible those scores will be higher for certain people… and also have the ability to process information faster… but that doesn't mean they are capable of using this speed effectively.
Speed of the car isn't important, what's important is who's is in the driver's seat, A thief or a cop ? 🤔🙄. Thats what makes a person intelligent, “His choices" 🙄This popped another question in my head.🤔.
Time to go do some more pondering 🤔
Thank you for making me think some more 🤗.
The best answer I can offer to your question is admittedly Clintonian: it depends on your definitions of the words "reliable" and "intelligence."
In the field of psychometrics, standardized tests must be valid, meaning they measure what they purport to measure. In order to do this, test developers must create an operational definition of what the test is going to measure; that is to say, "In order to measure the degree to which a person suffers from depression, I will define 'depression' as XYZ." Similarly, intelligence tests are designed to measure "intelligence" as operationally defined by that particular test.
For example, David Weschler (developer of the Weschler Adult Intelligence Scales) defined intelligence as "the global capacity of a person to act purposefully, to think rationally, and to deal effectively with his environment," which sounds reasonable on paper-- but how does one go about measuring these arguably subjective capacities in the real world?
The Weschler test does it like this: "global capacity" is broken down into 2 broad categories, Verbal and Performance. These are further broken down to 4 general areas of cognitive ability: Verbal Comprehension, Working Memory, Perceptual Organization, and Processing Speed. Within each of these categories are subtests based on the performance of a specific task designed to measure some aspect of that ability. (For example, the subtests of Perceptual Organization include picture-completion and pattern-recreation tasks.)
Short answer: Yes, standardized tests do measure intelligence, according to their own operational definitions of "intelligence." These are typically adapted from a theoretical framework (in the case of the WAIS, the theory of multiple intelligences).
Regarding the reliability question, a psychological test is considered to be "reliable" if it produces a predictable pattern of results across conditions, to the inclusion or exclusion of a given set of mitigating factors (e.g., the subject must be over the age of 18 and the test must be administered in his or her primary language). In the case of IQ, the test results for a random sample of the population should graph as a bell curve, with a mean IQ of approximately 100 and a standard deviation of 15.
Tests must demonstrate inter-rater reliability (the pattern of results is the same regardless of who is administering the test), test-retest reliability (if I take an IQ test and attain a score of 125, I should be able to re-take the test 3 months later and attain the same score, or very close to it), inter-method reliability (if there are multiple forms of a given test, they must not produce a significantly different pattern of results), and internal consistency reliability (each item on the test produces a highly-correlated pattern of scores).
Standardized IQ tests (such as the WAIS and the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scales) do meet these stringent standards of reliability. To the greatest extent possible, the tests endeavor to control for mitigating variables, but it's an imperfect science and results can be somewhat skewed by individual factors.
So, again: Yes, IQ tests are reliable measures, according to a given operational definition of "reliability."
None of the above applies to the type of "IQ tests" you can find on the Internet, for a number of reasons: these tests aren't held to the same rigid validity and reliability requirements as formal standardized tests, the test items are publicly available (you can't purchase copies of tests like the WAIS or SBIS if you do not have the appropriate professional qualifications), and the tests are unsupervised. Online IQ tests don't have much predictive validity with respect to standardized IQ tests.
@zexsypmp23 I think we got away from my original article. The participants in The bell curve book by charles murray all took the Armed services vocational aptitude battery (ASVAB). The author further used the outcomes to argue, 1) Intelligence levels the playing fields for all people regardless of socioeconomic status. That should be a word of comfort to all. You probably would not find anywhere else in the world that provide opportunities for all, rich or poor, immigrants vs native born than in the US. Of course in any country in the world legacy plays a role ie kids from rich or influential families will get a leg up. However compared the US to let just say, Vietnam, the average poor kid in the US has a lot more leveled playing field. I imagined the philipines is similar.
2) the other point author made was Cognitive ability is heritable only between 40-80%. So what is the other 20-60%? As we have seen over and over, a poor kid whose family value education and good work ethics will have a much higher chance of ending up in the higher strata of society than the same poor kid who get influenced by gang values. For example, Ben Carson, a black kid who grew up poor raised by a single mother, ended up being a doctor, not just any doctor, but a neuro surgeon. His brother had a career in engineering. You also see countless examples of poor immigrants who end up in the upper strata just in one generation through hard work and education.
Now, this is just what I learned recently we that genes are not static, that they somehow learn from the environment and change over time as well.
So, let’s for the sake of argument, supposed the study found people Vietnamese have lower IQ than Filipino. As a Vietnamese what would I think about that? I would say it’s not 100% hereditary and certainly I as an individual can improve my success by finding what my gift is and work on it. I myself can tell you, I’m not the smartest. I have above above average intelligence. In school, I always spent a lot more time studying than the average student but in the end, I made out pretty well. I know plenty of people my brother included who are cognitively smarter than me. I imagined if they took IQ test would probably score a good 10 points higher, don’t end up As successful as I.
I can go on and on but you got the point. IQ test is not racist. A racist may use it to prove their superiority but someone else can make a different argument.
Cognitive types can be put into categories of attention, memory, logic and reasoning, and auditory and visual processing. Since these areas relate to each other, weakness in one area may signal weakness in another. Cognitive skills can, however, be improved with practice over time as soon as they are identified.
Here are the types of cognitive abilities and ways they might present as weaknesses:
Attention is the ability to stay focused on a task despite distractions or having multiple tasks to perform at once. Focus is critical for strong job performance as it can affect the impact you have on your role. Attention directly relates to memory function, helping you strengthen both short-term and long-term memory recall.
Attention deficit might be a factor if you have trouble staying focused or are easily distracted. Going from task to task, making frequent mistakes or not finishing projects on time are three examples of a cognitive skill weakness. If you have experienced any of these habits, you may benefit from improving your attention and focus.
Memory is your ability to recall information, whether it is recent (short-term memory) or from the past (long-term memory). Weak memory can alter perceptions about facts, tasks, dates and times.
If you find you need to reread material or ask for directions midway through a task, your short-term memory may be lacking. Trouble recalling names or struggling to remember important facts may be indicators that your long-term memory would perform better with improvement.
These cognitive strengths refer to the ability to assess a problem and find a solution. Strong problem-solving skills are a direct result of your ability to use logic and reasoning.
Do you frequently ask what to do next, feel overwhelmed or have trouble understanding instructions? Improving your logic and reasoning skills can help increase cognitive capacity and expand your capability to find solutions to complex issues.
Auditory and visual processing involves interpreting the information we receive through sight and sound. Auditory and visual processing works in conjunction with other types of cognitive tasks such as understanding symbols (like letters and numbers) and visualizing solutions. With this cognitive ability, the speed at which information is processed is also a factor.
Cognitive tasks like understanding written text, deciphering a map or following directions are supported by the ability to comprehend. If it is difficult to find your way using a map or if you struggle to solve math word problems in a timely manner, this could indicate that your processing speed may benefit from improvement. In general, strong auditory and visual processing skills mean less time spent trying to understand new information.
Fluid cognitive abilities (Gf) refers to reasoning or thinking, processing speeds, and one’s ability to solve problems in novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge.
@zexsypmp23 glad someone was curious enough to create a large study. I’m not good at reading these trials and critique them. Just taking the results as valid. So what does this mean? Let say, you test intelligence of a child of genus parents who both have 10/10 intelligence when that child is 7 years old, and the child attains 5/10 average. There’s a good chance when that child is tested again at 17 years old, the intelligence will be closer to 10/10. But let say at 7, the child already tested high. Then can he tested low when tested again at 17? The answer is no. You see in general some of the developmental disorder, the child regresses rather than progresses. In a normal child, intelligence progresses not regresses.
According to this study, you can provide a lot of enrichment but in the end, the child’s intelligence is limited by the parents.
what the study didn’t address, if I understood correctly, is how much in the end the environment contributes to the final attainment of intelligence. Let say the parents have 5/10 intelligence but the child is provided superb enrichment through this life. Let say at 7 yo, he tested 6/10. Can that child tested at 17 yo attains 7/10? Let compared to the child of genus parents who is provided normal education, at 7 tested 5/10 but at 17 may test 10/10. If I understood correctly.
so I’d like to see a study that explore the environmental contribution to IQ. That would provide hope and inspiration to all.
@zexsypmp23 oh sorry, I read again, the study did mention, met-analysis showed hereditary is 50%. That means 50% is due to environment. This is good news indeed.